What Did Woodward Know and When Did He Know It?

[by Tom McNichol]

Transcript of a meeting between Bob Woodward and Washington Post executive editor Leonard Downie, on November 15, 2005, from 10:12AM TO 11:55AM

WOODWARD: Uh, the reason I thought we ought to talk this morning is
because in, in our conversations, uh, uh, I have, I have the impression that you don't know everything I know…
DOWNIE: That's right.
WOODWARD: ...and it makes it very difficult for you to make judgments that, uh, that only you can make...
DOWNIE: That's right.
WOODWARD: ... on some of these things and I thought that--
DOWNIE: You've got, in other words, I've got to know why you feel
that, uh, that something...
WOODWARD: Well, let me...
DOWNIE: ...that, that we shouldn't unravel something.
WOODWARD: ...let me give you my overall first. I think, I think that, uh, there's no doubt about the seriousness of the problem we're, we've got. We have a cancer--within, close to the Washington Post, that's growing. It's growing daily. It's compounding, it grows geometrically now because it compounds itself. Uh, that'll be clear as I explain you know, some of the details, uh, of why it is, and it basically is because (1) Two years ago, a senior administration official revealed to me the identity of Valerie Plame; (2) uh, I've concealed that fact from you and the Post's readers. And that is just--and there is no assurance--
DOWNIE: That it won't bust.
WOODWARD: That, that won't bust.
DOWNIE: Now, where, where are the soft spots on this?
WOODWARD:Well, first of all, there's the, there's the problem of how I continue to cover the story now that I'm a part of the story…
DOWNIE: Right.
WOODWARD: [Clears throat] And some of my sources have made a direct threat against me and the Post as a result of this. They say they'll go to Fitzgerald and blow the whole story if we don't cooperate with them now.
DOWNIE: What's that, on Plame?
WOODWARD: Plame, and apparently some other things. I don't know the full extent of it. Uh--
DOWNIE: I don't know about anything else.
WOODWARD: I don't know either, and I [laughs] hate to learn some of these things. So basically, my sources say they want to be taken care of in order to remain anonymous and keep me out of the story. It'll cost money…
DOWNIE: How much money do you need?
WOODWARD: I would say it's going to cost, uh, a million dollars over the next, uh, two years. (Pause)
DOWNIE: We could get that.
WOODWARD: Uh, huh.
DOWNIE: You, on the money, if you need the money, I mean, uh you could get the money. Let's say--
WOODWARD: Well, I think that we're going--
DOWNIE: What I mean is, you could, you could get a million dollars. And you could get it in cash. I, I know where it could be gotten.
WOODWARD: Uh, huh.
DOWNIE: I mean it's not easy, but it could be done. But, uh, the question is how the hell do you know that these [expletive deleted] guys won't talk to prosecutors even if we get them the money?
WOODWARD: [Coughs] Well, there is always the possibility of something busting but I think it's best that we continue to pursue our strategy of containment. We pay the sources and continue to stonewall the grand jury. That way we keep the sources on board and I can continue to serve the Post in, uh, my own way…
DOWNIE: Uh huh.
WOODWARD: So that way, we stay ahead of the story without me getting involved with the grand jury again.
DOWNIE: Well, your, your major, your major guy keep under control is that [characterization deleted] Karl Rove.
WOODWARD: That's right.
DOWNIE: I think. Because he knows...
WOODWARD: He knows so much.
DOWNIE: ...about a lot of other things.
WOODWARD: Well, Rove is totally knowledgeable about….

[At this point there is an 18 1/2 minute gap in the tape]

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