Saving hip-hop from itself since 1999. (Photo: Def Jux)

[by Scott Thill]

Like the old playground aphorism goes: If you don't know, you better ask someone. As far as Morphizm is concerned, El-P is hip-hop, its smartass heart rendered in density, fury and intelligence. After taking the indie-hop outfit Company Flow into history, he split for his own label Def Jux and a solo career sprinkled with bombs and satire. His debut effort Fantastic Damage was a stunning indictment of post-9/11 hyperreality, and his latest release I'll Sleep When You're Dead is a black hole full of dark matters, personal and political. Plus, he grew a moustache just to force himself to finish it. Talk about torture. Details below, as are anger, hope and a desire to take art into naked territories of honesty and lies, no matter what's unearthed.

Morphizm: First off, thanks for talking. Last time we talked was before the 2004 election and it was hilarious.
ELP: Oh yeah, that's right. How did that go by the way, the whole election thing?

Morphizm: Like I said, it was fucking hilarious.
ELP: The actual election.

Morphizm: Yeah, there was some votejacking, some tampering, other shit which I'm guessing is behind your new album. I read somewhere you said it was not a political album, but an honest one. And I'm trying to figure out what the difference is.
ELP: The difference is that I'm not trying to beat anyone over the head with my fucking politics. I don't think anyone needs to hear my Geopolitics 101 lecture, you know? I just wasn't interested in doing that. I think that the album is political in nature because it was written during these times, and I take care to make sure the music I'm doing at the time reflects the time. So it is permeated throughout with politics, but apart from a few moments, it's not some direct political statement.

Morphizm: It may skew differently years down the road, but I can't help but feel like I'm soaking in it.
ELP:  I think one of the reasons why I didn't want to make it so directly political is that I am trying to make music that lasts. I think the album is really about struggle. Struggle remains, no matter what. In ten years, there will still be struggle. And I think what people will come away with is that idea of trying to keep your head above water during that struggle, trying to make sense of the shit. If you listen to some of the more obscure Curtis Mayfield stuff where he's calling out the actual mayor or comptroller, you'll understand why I didn't make it a direct political statement. Then it's a case of, "Wow, this music is incredible, but who is that guy he just mentioned?" (Laughs) He's been dead for fucking 40 years! And unfortunately, I feel like I'm incredibly in tune with all the fucking stress. It's my fucking curse, and why my music sounds the way it does.

Morphizm: It's also a gift too. Like Fantastic Damage, this disc is a ferocious blast. It's personal, but true to the listener who might not know shit about your personal history.
ELP: I hope, because that is the way I am trying to come across, the way I am trying to express myself.

Morphizm: It's truth that needs to be heard. I'm tired of rap turning into cartoon bullshit.
ELP: Right, it's like smooth violence. What the fuck is that shit, you know? I never saw anyone beat the shit out of somebody and then walk away with a cool little bop and hop in a Lamborghini! (Laughs) I mean, people do get fucked up and hurt. I don't know man, I just wanted to make an angry record. I wanted to make a record that reflected how I felt, because I am pissed right now. Period. And I think there are a lot a people who are, and I think this shit has to be said. I think someone has to speak up for that approach, and I'm not necessarily electing myself. I just decided I would be true to it, to try as best as I could in my writing and production to come across true to that anger.

Morphizm: Well, since 9/11, I can't think of anyone else who is as much a touchstone for that kind of anger and truth, so whether you want it or not dude, you've been elected.
ELP: You know what, man? That is honestly something that is up to others. For me, I'll rep that because I can't escape it. I can't escape giving a fuck. And also, I can't escape being a fucked up person either. For me, that's what the album is really about. I just felt like someone needed to rep the fact that there is a soul that has been batted around for the last five years. There was a vibe sucked out of this city when the flames burst, and we've been walking around in a daze ever since. What it comes down is that fact that the average person doesn't have any particular power in everyday life. And what this boils down to is how we're reacting to it in our day-to-day lives. I don't know about you, but I know that myself and a lot of my friends have been through some serious shit. And I think it's safe to say that there is a dark cloud hanging over the sanity of us all. And that is where these songs come from. But ultimately, I think it's a hopeful record, because it's the good fight.

Morphizm: Not to get too arty about this, but do you feel that you've evolved past hip-hop? Discs like this give me hope for the artist who is taking all of the data around him or her and making something totally new with it.
ELP:  Well, a) fuck no, I'll never evolve beyond hip-hop. The reason I say that -- and I really truly believe this even though it may come off as arrogant -- but wherever I step I'm taking hip-hop with me. And not many people might agree with me or misinterpret it as me saying I'm advancing hip-hop or whatever, but I'm not saying that. I'm saying that there are sidesteps and ups and downs, different ways to turn, and wherever hip-hop goes, I'm carrying it on my shoulders and I'm carrying it in my arms. No, I'll never evolve beyond hip-hop, because the reason it is so important and exciting and still can be is that it is the combination of things in ways they've never been combined before. Hip-hop is ultimate filter of all genres and sounds. From day one, people were drawing influence from rock, jazz and everything else. I just think that sometimes it is done too narrowly. Like, "This is going to be my rock track. This is going to be my hard track." And I just felt like, fuck it: In the course of any one song, I want you to go through a whirlwind of pain, joy and genre, and I want it all to work. That's my goal. And when I produce my records, I wants cats to not know what my shit is but still think it's dope.

Morphizm: I think you've nailed that. Especially nowadays. I mean, back when Public Enemy was king, the world was crazy and corrupt and their music spoke to that. Nowadays, shit is even crazier and more corrupt, but people have gone to sleep.
ELP: I agree. It's like, "What the fuck are you people doing?" Honestly. Not to say that there isn't some dope shit around, but goddamn don't the times dictate the music to some degree? I mean, where is the music that is relevant to what we're going through now? Not that there isn't music that sounds good out there; that's acheivable. But goddamn man, let's start talking about this shit. Man, I just refuse to be ignored, that's all it is. As a person, as a musican as a member of this demented generation. I refuse to ignore myself. I'm not satisfied with making music that doesn't mean anything. It just seems silly. You can't walk into a roomful of orphans and show them a movie you made about orphans. (Laughs)

Morphizm: (Laughs) Right. What the fuck is this?
ELP: Yeah, all the orphans are singing and dancing. And the real orphans are going to look at you and go, "Mutherfucker, do I look like I'm singing and dancing?"

Morphizm: "Tomorrow tomorrow"? What's that shit about?
ELP: It's cute and everything, but there's no millionaire trying to adopt you. Well, apart from the very few celebrities who are making that public. So I definitely agree with you: It does feel like cats have just fallen asleep. And it really boils down to the music and albums, because those are things we remember and love. All of my life, the albums that affected me are the ones that really hit me, the ones that made me feel like the artist was saying something that I didn't even know I was thinking. They were the ones who came across musically and lyrically in a way that made them feel immediate. That has to be what happens. And you can argue about genres and subgenres and the rest but none of that shit fucking matters. It's all about the person, and what they're putting forth. And if that person is simply just putting forth a collection of jams that sound individually dope but lack an overall impact on your life, then you're going to like the record for a couple weeks right before you drop it. And everyone keeps talking about how the internet is ruining hip-hop and the music industry, how the sales are plummeting and everything, but you know what I think? I just think that mutherfuckers aren't making any interesting records. Wait, scratch that: I don't think people are making any important records. And I'm not in any way saying that I am making that important record, but it's important to me. I think of lot of cats just don't fucking know how to throw themselves into it, or aren't willing to.

Morphizm: I'll say it: You're making an important record. When the world is crazy, I don't want my art to be a hallucination of wholeness.
ELP: I think it's less tangible than that. You can't say one thing is more important than another, but I just think that people haven't awakened enough to throw their whole fucking soul into their work.

Morphizm: Maybe it's that simple, man.
ELP: I like all types of shit, you know? There's no criteria for songs that I will or will not like. I just don't think that people are putting themselves into it. I hear their music, and a lot of it is interesting and a lot of it is dope, but I'm not making records that are just about that. I want them to do that as well.

Morphizm: It's a good approach. Put your life into it because you don't know how much life you got left.
ELP: Exactly, and you may not actually have any left. And frankly, with a mutherfucker like me who puts a record out every four years, I don't plan on being a rapper in my mid-'30s. I'm just not going to do it.

[Next Page: "It feels horrible, fucking horrible. Although by week three, you kind of get this powerful porn aura, know what I mean? You kind of feel like a grimy bastard.  I came so close to cutting that shit off, man..."]

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